Author Topic: Do You Think Rules Should Change Depending on the Buy-In of the Event?  (Read 572 times)

Offline LloydFontillas

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 250
Hi All,

As most of you know I just got back from running the Macau High Stakes Challenge HK$2 million buy-in with a re-buy and I don't know how many times I have been asked this question.

"Would you treat the players the same way in a 2 million buy-in as you would in a 2,700 buy-in"?

Reading this. How do you feel about it and why?

My answer will follow as more views come in and answers.

Lloyd

Offline LloydFontillas

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 250
Re: Do You Think Rules Should Change Depending on the Buy-In of the Event?
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2012, 01:34:56 PM »
As much as we want the rules to be the same for all events regardless of the buy-in they can't be and this is why.

An event where the buy-in is as big as the Macau High Stakes Challenge featuring a HK$2M buy-in with a rebuy. Only a selective group of players can afford to play an event like this. Which, the field will be a mix of high stakes baccarat players or so called no skill gamblers, very wealthy business men and the high stakes successful poker poker pros.

I will break down these type of players so that everyone can understand why some of the rules may differ in an event with such a large buy-in opposed to a buy-in that can draw possibly thousands of players.

Starting with the high stakes baccarat player or so called no skill gamblers (these type of players made up 50+ of the field):
These players are willing to drop the amount of the buy-in in 1 single hand in a game that makes you put the money in 1st before seeing your hand. In the game of baccarat as well these players get to squeeze the cards and bend them out of shape. Which where in regular poker tournaments if caught would receive some kind of penalty. (in the Macau High Stakes Challenge we went though 30 decks with only 10 tables in play hahaha!) Slow rolling is also a big thing in baccarat. So, I saw many of the players do in the event as well. Also these type of players want the event to finish as soon as possible. Which explains the turbo structures for these super high buy-in.

Now for the very wealthy business men (30% of the field):
When you have these type of players in the field. The cell phone rule is very hard to apply. Some of them are taking calls from brokers, there managers and it could just be a random call. But, I will hand signal to a player, that the phone needs to be put down while you are in hand. But, no penalties will be issued because of it. Unlike in regular tournaments. The thing I can say about these type of players. They might not know much about the game. But, they do tend to take a long time in thinking about what to do. I guess just like they would do in a business transaction that they might have.

Lastly the high stakes successful poker pros (20% of the field):
The is a reason why they are so successful, in my opinion is how they adapt to the no skill gamblers and business men. Instead of throwing a tantrum when getting slow rolled or calling time on a player that is thinking so long. These pros will take their bad beats graciously, take an interview afterwards with a smile, shake another player's hand after going broke and will stay focused in the game other than bitch about how bad the dealer is in the box. =)

So, to sum this thread up. These type of huge buy-in events are great for poker and we can learn so much from them in terms of how rules can change only if we can keep ourselves inline. I have been also asked about the type of pressure that I have to take in these type of events when making a ruling. Honestly, regardless the type of player that I mentioned above are the easiest group to deal with because the fields are not as big, the players seems to be more laid back and most of all, they don't seem to mind dropping so much money. I know that many players playing in regular events are the same when it comes to being a professional. But, in a field of 100s or even thousands is why the rules have to be more strict. Simply because there are more players that will get out of line if not policed correctly.

With every thing said and done. When I am brought into a tournament regardless of the buy-in. I do my best to handle each situation and give the majority of the players what they expect in how an event is suppose to be run. In a Super High Rollers event, the players do get what you can say special treatment, simply because 90% of the players playing it are asked, what they expect in the tournament and as a TD I am briefed as well what rules may differ from other events that I run. Some of those rules include. Being allowed to talk on the cell phone a couple of times, get caught acting out of turn and receive a warning, instead of a penalty, when busted go rail friends and not get kicked out of the tournament area, little things that I would not normally allow in a regular tournament.

Even though a Super High Rollers is an open tournament for everyone that can afford it? The event is more of a exclusive event, made for the big dogs to come together and compete in a much more so called friendly environment.

Offline milman17

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Do You Think Rules Should Change Depending on the Buy-In of the Event?
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2012, 05:51:39 PM »
So does everyone have to declare before the tournament if they are a baccarat player, a busy businessman, or a pro?  How do you know if a pro is on the phone?  How do you know if a busy businessman is bending the cards?  In my opinion poker has one set of rules for everyone.  If you can't follow them, go back to baccarat table.  If your too busy with your business, then go do your business  and not play poker!  By catering to these people is unfair to the ones that don't bend cards or don't have to be on their cell phone 24 hours a day.   Making special rules for these people is just making bad poker players.  What if these high rollers enter the WPT?  Does the WPT have these special rules?  I am from the old school of poker, I guess because I am old....ok, stopping my rant here, can't wait for my T-shirt, ohhh wait, you still owe me one, ha ha ha ha!

Offline LloydFontillas

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 250
Re: Do You Think Rules Should Change Depending on the Buy-In of the Event?
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2012, 02:48:55 PM »
So does everyone have to declare before the tournament if they are a baccarat player, a busy businessman, or a pro?  How do you know if a pro is on the phone?  How do you know if a busy businessman is bending the cards?  In my opinion poker has one set of rules for everyone.  If you can't follow them, go back to baccarat table.  If your too busy with your business, then go do your business  and not play poker!  By catering to these people is unfair to the ones that don't bend cards or don't have to be on their cell phone 24 hours a day.   Making special rules for these people is just making bad poker players.  What if these high rollers enter the WPT?  Does the WPT have these special rules?  I am from the old school of poker, I guess because I am old....ok, stopping my rant here, can't wait for my T-shirt, ohhh wait, you still owe me one, ha ha ha ha!
I actually respect your answer. But, when you refer to the WPT or WSOP in fact. What we are talking about a 10K buy-in. Like I said these guys are the easiest to work in the business and respect the rules. It's just that in events like this (and don't get me wrong it could be any event), as long as we as TDs are informed of any rule changes a head of time, we will put the word out to the players as well. So, basically there will always be rules. Rules that may differ from event to event.

Best example, I was in Mauritius for the APT Asian Series and I was shown a pamphlet of a WPT event than ran over there. I read a part about the rules. "Using TDA rules, except the method of how to raise". I soon found out how the players over there are trained to Double every single amount they are facing when wanting to raise. On top of it! They are always late as well! Hahaha! Let me put it this way. During APT Asian Series Mauritius out of 10 events not 1 of them started on time because I would have like 30 registered and 2 of them sitting down at starting time! =( Oh and this coming APT Asian Series Manila if you are in town? I will make sure to hand you that t-shirt!

Offline milman17

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Do You Think Rules Should Change Depending on the Buy-In of the Event?
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2012, 03:44:23 PM »
Thanks buddy, I won't make it to Manila, I will just wait for you for the next APT in Cebu....don't lose my T-Shirt, ha ha ha ha!